GRAVELAND interview for Decibel Magazine March 2006
1. Graveland is generally considered an NSBM band, and seems to be an inspiration for many other NSBM bands. Do you consider yourself a National Socialist? Are you a member of any White Power or NS organizations?
I do not think Graveland is a NSBM band. I have never said anything like that. Graveland is regarded as NSBM band because of my political convictions that most of people would call extreme right wing NS convictions. It is true only to some degree because for me mysticism and ancient pagan beliefs are the most important. Politics is less important. Graveland is a band. Music is the most important in Graveland. Music inspired by pagan mysticism and cult of a warrior. I think that the meaning of NS BM is distorted. Combining NS with Satanism is not a true political conviction. It is rather a way of achieving more evil image of some bands. NS BM is a artistic creation which combines scandal and controversy. It is a creation of musicians, not politicians. If we take a closer look at this phenomenon, we will see some major crucial differences in NS and Satanism ideologies. In the Third Reich, Satanists would end in gas chambers. I am convinced of this and you should remember my words.
There is one more trend of NS BM that is inspired by NS but has nothing to do with Satanism. Although still these bands play pure BM. It is important and I think it is a high time to name this trend with a proper musical name. Because BM will always associate with Satanism.
In the past I was a member of The Temple of Fullmoon . It was a copy, maybe more idealistic in some points, of a Norwegian organization BM Circle . Later I was a member of a pagan organization “Rodzima Wiara” (Native Belief). But it is the past. I do not want to be a member of any organization. I do not see any point in referring to NS because I do not see any point in referring to any ideologies that lost. It is against logic and eternal law of evolution. I think that White Man should search for new ideas that would be well adapted for current reality and the problems of contemporary world.
2. Recent interviews posted on the Graveland website seem to indicate that you are trying to distance yourself from black metal. Is this true, and if so, why? Your latest album, Fire Chariot Of Destruction, seems to black metal more than anything else.
I do not want my band be identified with Satanism. BM will always be identified with Satanism because Satanism is a inseparably connected with BM. From the very beginning of Graveland we have combined paganism with Satanism. It happened because people I played with were Satanists and they were not interested in paganism. And due to these differences finally we started to walk separate ways and Graveland became one-man band again. And since then I invested Graveland with paganism. In the past I regarded Satanism as a natural inspiration of underground BM bands. A mark of the authenticity. But my long-standing experience taught me that people inspired by Satanism were extremely egoistic individuals capable of betraying even the closest friends and ideals. Brotherhood bonds in Satanism are pure myth, something that never existed. I understood that I could not support Satanism as Satanism was a part of Judeo-Christian religion. I rejected everything connected with alien Judeo-Christian culture and religion. At that time BM became commercial trend and I did not want to be a part of that circus. True evil people that I knew, now are in prison or they are dead. The evil they worshiped turned against them.
“Fire Chariot of Destruction” may sound as BM but if you listen to this music more carefully you will hear that my melodies are different than typical BM melodies. My melodies are more pagan and epic metal melodies. Only character and sound of my vocal is unchanging element of my music. I hope one day to start singing with normal vocal. Old and folk music is an inspiration for my guitar riffs. In the past I was inspired by metal bands as Emperor or Bathory. It is the past now. Sound of “Fire…” is stronger and dynamic, songs more mature and faster. I speed up tempo because my listeners accepted me to do so. Marduk, Watain, 1349 – these bands play BM. But not Graveland. Do not identify Graveland with BM!
3. Do you consider Graveland primarily a vehicle for your beliefs, or do you consider yourself a musician first and foremost?
I am trying not to burden Graveland with store of my convictions and reflections. This fund is too heavy to be carried by music. It would make my music too difficult in reception and I am not going to burden listeners of my music with the problems that bother me. I think that people are sick of politics and they have enough problems with their everyday lives. Graveland is a experience of a different kind. It is journey to the other dimension of precious values and experiences which are impossible to find in today's world. In Graveland I have always referred to epic and pagan inspirations. In my lyrics, image and art for covers of my albums. I like it because my music let me walk the paths of my ancestors and visit ancient cult places. Take part in pagan rituals and re-enactments of ancient battles and life of our forefathers. Every year I take part in Viking Festivals and it is a great experience. I search for mysticism and seek for answers about the meaning of our life, where are we from and where we are heading.
Politics is a quite different world – simple, mundane and primitive. Evil merges with good and sometimes it is hard to tell difference between good and evil. Politics is full of lies and manipulation, betrayal and short-lived attraction. If I was to look for inspiration in politics, I would not be able to record even one track. But I think that each contemporary pagan should have some political convictions and reflections. We cannot just stand there doing nothing. We cannot look on passively as the alien powers destroy our lands and profane holy symbols of our forefathers religion. I am very disappointed by the attitude of many contemporary European Vikings who behave as hippies, not as brave might warriors. I have always supported philosophy and ideology of Wotansvolk. I am a musician inspired by paganism. A musician who is not afraid to answer political questions.
4. How would you describe your relationship to and feelings about the non-NS black metal community?
In the past I identified with BM and I though that BM was cult only when it was underground style. Some ideological rules were also very important for me. Breaking these rules by the bands from front covers of big music magazines was quite a annoying experience. Looking through these magazines, reading interviews etc. could discourage from playing BM. But I started play BM because of ideological reasons. BM was underground music. And then commercialization of BM and betrayal of BM ideas by its precursors, made us even more radical and extreme. We did not want to be like them. And do not make the same mistakes. At that time everything they said and did about BM was very important for me. But later it has changed. People and bands have became less important for me. I found out that I was the only person I could rely on. And that I could walk my own way. Now I am interested in bands and people with whom I am bound up by friendship or pagan beliefs. And I am not interested what other people do. BM took the place of DM. Universality and commonness killed cult and spirit of BM. I do not see any point in identifying with BM any longer. I play in my own style and I do not care about the rest.
5. There was originally a reference to “Norwegian Aryan Black Metal” in Darkthrone's Transylvanian Hunger liner notes; one of Samoth's bands call themselves Zyklon (after a Nazi gas-chamber fumigant), and Mayhem use old SS Totenkopf insignias on their t-shirts—yet all three bands would not go so far as to call themselves NSBM. Do you feel that their use of NS symbols and pro-Aryan rhetoric is fraudulent?
I think that radical convictions and ideas supported by these bands at the beginning of their existence came from the typical for young people rebellious and radical attitude towards life and from their fascination of extreme ideologies and beliefs. Such things are always important for young people. Extremism let them distinguish from the thousands of frustrates and vegetates. At that time unholy BM slowly got some traits of extreme right wing ideologies. As a musical kind it let BM distinguish on metal scene. Referring to Aryanism and the achievements of the Third Reich made BM more radical and “evil”. Satanism mixed with NS assured some very attractive and alluring experiences which for common people were repugnant and disgraceful. When people got used to Satanism in metal, young generation needed stronger weapon to come out. And extreme right wing ideologies were perfect weapon. And these young people had nothing to lose, they did not care about money. They just savoured with the scandal they provoked. It was the summary of their Satanist activity and the proof of their authenticity. I must mention here church burning and some other war expeditions in order to intimidate competition and spread some Satanist terror. Such publicity resulted in the number of sold albums and money these bands made. It had huge influence of their later convictions. But we must remember that these people did not do that for money. Money appeared later and it changed their attitude. Also some police repressions and invigilation had an influence on cooling the subversive temperament.
There is one very interesting thing. I am surprised that new generation of Scandinavian metal scene does not imitate them. In Poland young bands identify with NS ideology, Satanism or paganism from the very beginning. Coming back to Dark Throne and Emperor…I think that they hid their true convictions not to affect the number of sold albums and contracts with big commercial labels. I also think that many young bands hide their convictions. But I think it is only temporary. In Europe more and more people are sick of immigrants, non-Whites inhabitants and Muslims who flood Europe . Scandinavia is in a very bad situation. Oslo slowly becomes second Mecca for Muslims.
6. Are you aware of any Graveland fans who enjoy your music but do not share your racial beliefs? If so, how do you react to & interact with them?
There are many such people. They listen to my music, but they do not read my lyrics and interviews. And those who read interviews, want to discuss some issues with me. I am a musician. I play and record music. I cannot order anyone to listen to my music. And I cannot forbid anyone to listen to Graveland. I just say that my music is not for everyone. Signing a contract with a big label was never my dream. I have never sought big audience or change my ideas and convictions in order to sell more albums. Sometimes people ask me questions they should ask but I answer these questions and it wins me more and more enemies. But this is what my music is about. Alone against all. And the only thing you can do, is to fight till the last breath and be faithful to your convictions and values.
Personally I am more intrigued by non-Whites listening to my music. Observing this situation I realized that my convictions are, at some point, universal and they can inspire other races to similar aims. There are some aspects we all agree…e.g. the harmfulness of multiculturalism, its bad influence on people's character and identity. We all need racial segregation to preserve our own culture and spirituality that is the anvil of our characters and will. The awareness of one's own value and identity deriving from knowledge and respect for traditions and customs of one's own Folk. The return to native pagan beliefs of our Soil from where our blood, flesh and spirit come. Anti-Semitism that comes not from natural instinct contempt and aversion for Jews (as Jews often describe it) but from the observation and evaluation of contemporary political situation and activities of international Jewish lobby. Everyone has a right to judge and comment today's world situation. And no one has a right to forbid it! Once I watched TV interview with a rap band. And I was very surprised listening to the words of these young Black people. They talked about their paganism, return to their pagan African roots. At the same time they were bursting with aversion for Christianity and other posey rap bands that commercialize rap destroying its spirit and character. Sound familiar? Ha ha ha. If you ask me about my attitude towards other races and cultures, I shape my views on knowledge about these races, their history and cultural, religious and spiritual achievements.
7. To what extent, if any, do you consider Graveland a useful or effective recruiting apparatus for White Power or NS organizations?
People who have an opportunity to listen to Graveland music and to my words take some other traits and values…more connected with pagan philosophy and beliefs. It is rather as spiritual revival and return to ancient values…return to values which let re-build one's own personality and character. In contemporary multicultural world we live as crippled children… as our hearts and souls were bombed with napalm or phosphorus…endless desert surrounds us…spiritual emptiness…lack of strong spiritual sensations. True real sensation, not those produced by the obedient to the system producers who create “art” according to requirements of political correctness. And time goes by very fast. More and more White people become aware of the danger of contemporary world. Multicultural world we created in order to satisfy our vain reasons and needs, slowly kills and annihilate us. Multicultural masses that were to be the slaves of the System are growing and spread. And White people are at the edge of extinction. Where is really bad, chaos and destruction appear. Pagan beliefs are the system of values that is the precious heritage of my Folk, its achievements that have assured the survival and development for thousands of years. I reach them to re-build my spirituality. Other people do the same. The world of right wing ideologies have always been strongly connected with religion and spirituality. It distinguish us from leftists. People who experience Graveland creativity, sometimes experience some kind of awakening. They become sensitive about some forbidden and censored by political correctness topics. Pagan beliefs have always been an inspiration for great people who are strong and live according to their values of pride and honor and die for their family and Folk. On these ancient pagan values, some people try to restore system of values to find themselves in contemporary world. System of pagan beliefs is not institutional. Even in countries as Japan where native pagan religion Shinto is still alive and popular, Shinto is not a institutional religion as Christianity. Today less and less people believe in institutions, especially when they know the history. Many people with extreme right wing convictions as White Power and NS look for values and strength in pagan beliefs…mysticism they need to make religion from ideology.
I have always supported right wing ideologies and political movements but I cannot let my creativity be restricted because of it. Freedom I value the most. Our ideologies and religions are our private choices dictated by the instincts of self-survival. Religions that make you a slave are poison, not a strength to survive!
8. In an interview I did with Wodansson from Pagan Front Vinland (himself a member of an NSBM band), he said he thinks action is more important than music. He said that he'd sold most of his record collection to by weapons in preparation for RaHoWa. Which do you think is a more effective means of communicating your beliefs—action or music?
Everyone has his own vocation. I am able to achieve more through my music that is my weapon. Proper words can start revolution. Of course I envy of American easy access to weapon. In Poland it is not so easy. Otherwise I would have a lot of different kinds of weapon. Now I can only collect swords, axes and bows. When I was in the army, I used AK47. One thing I know for sure: if one day I visit the United States , some of my friends would show me some shooting tricks.
I said it for many times, but I will repeat it again: life is not a satisfaction of vain greed and mundane whims. Life is a never-ending shaping of one's own identity, will and character…constant learning and self-development and improvement. One day our abilities will have to take a test of survival. Thinking about the future of the United States , I wonder if your country will make it through or maybe as Russia will divide into smaller republics (states)…or maybe it will plunge into chaos and anarchy flooded with non-Whites from the South. I observed the situation in New Orleans . Really interesting. I wondered how the downfall of the US would look like. And the decline is coming. The ruling elites live in unreal world. They care more about protection of Israel than about their own citizens. The situation in the US is not good. And I think that you all know that. White people are the minority. And White people have always been responsible for national order and hold important functions in the government. And as White are the minority, who is going to rule? Majority of the countries ruled by non-Whites (especially Africans) are plunged into civil wars, anarchy, corruption, drug business etc. But maybe the United States have chance to survive…through access to weapon. In the case of chaos and anarchy, White society will be able to create military units and protect the lands against the enemies…???
When RaHoWa comes? Maybe when the US lose war in the Middle East ? It is also inevitable. Islam spreads without aircraft carriers and super war technology. One thing is sure: RaHoWa is imminent.
9. Do you believe RaHoWa is imminent? If so, what preparations have you made?
Europe is not in a better position than the US . Destabilization under the pressure of immigrants which are hostile to our customs and our civilization. I mean Islamic revolution here. They come to Europe from the Middle East and Africa . Colored people living in Europe convert to Islam…not only Arabs but also the Blacks. Confrontation between White Western civilization and the civilization of colored immigrants is imminent. I mean force confrontation. And it will not take place in far away colonies, but it will take place in Europe . Of course White man is responsible for this situation. White man lost the eternal natural instinct of survival. Europe is plunged into leftists ideologies that are a threat for our survival. The growing power of homosexual lobby destroying family bonds – it has influence on the decreasing number of White people. There is no population growth among White people! A falling birth rate is a disaster. Mass media as MTV or VIVA inflict deadly poison into minds of European youth. Our native traditions and customs are replaced by African folklore! White people are bombarded with vain false inspirations and empty false modern pop-culture that plunges our civilization in decadence and spiritual shallowness. It weakens our natural instincts. White people are not interested in the world situation. They do not care. This is not good because the enemy does not sleep. Strong pro-Jewish lobby is also responsible for this bad situation because Jews are afraid of new holocaust so they support all anti-right wing activities.
People think that the approaching crisis caused by revolutionary aspirations of non-Whites communities in Europe can be stopped by law or police repressions. But what will happen if people responsible for law system and controlling police would convert to Islam, what will happen if these Whites would hate themselves for being White? What then? I still hope White people will awake. And events as French Intifada will motivate their actions. I am surprised that some people who support leftist ideologies, start to criticize multicultural society. This is really very interesting.
10. If you could change three things about the world today, what would they be?
The US should stop supporting Israel . It would be very helpful to acquire access to natural resources of the Middle East that are still necessary. The politics of supporting the most hated enemy of the Arabic world is not helpful at all. This conflict is very harmful to the US and the American society cannot tell the right and the wrong. American society thinks about this conflict with Arabic world as a nation matter! Mass medias ruled by the Jewish lobby manipulate information and spread propaganda against Arabs.
Mass media and governments should stop supporting multicultural civilization. Multiculturalism is very harmful for our people. Our defense forces and the integration of the country go down. There is a problem with forming an army. Men are not men but scum with upset psycho. They are not adapted to life. Where the colored are the majority, corruption and banditry appear. The activity supporting multiculturalism should be prohibited and should be punished as a crime against the state. I hope one day these prophets of multiculturalism will be punished.
Hollywood productions should be prohibited. Hollywood is a cradle of decadence and depravity, spiritual emptiness and intellectual shallowness. The requirements of propaganda and political correctness kill the art. Hollywood productions are very weak. They are marked by lack of inventiveness , supporting of feminist and homosexuals. It is a parade of the clowns and a theatre of vanity.